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Allows admins to read private messaging

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Do you agree or disagree ?

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Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by styler347 on Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:52 pm

I would like to read all PMs sent between my members...in the grand scheme of things, having another line of defense to monitor what some random member might think is private to organize whatever heinous act they may be trying to use us to accomplish is not a bad idea.

Look what happened to PS4 in Belgium...I would like to opportunity to work to prevent that from happening in my forum. Likewise, if someone is using our forum for any other clandestine communication between themselves and other members, I would like to monitor privately those interactions for my own protection, the protection of our other members, the protection of the organization and the world as a whole.


Last edited by styler347 on Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:53 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo and emphasis)

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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by BlackScorpion on Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:06 pm

That my friend is called invasion of privacy. It is against the law, and you can get sued for it.
How would you like if someone was monitoring your PM's, emails etc?

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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by Nemo on Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:24 pm

Hello,

I am not in favour of this and I am pretty sure that this proposal will never be accepted by our company.

They are called private messages for a reason. As BlackScorpion mentioned, invasion of privacy is illegal. France has adopted its own law concerning information technology, files and civil liberties : https://www.cnil.fr/sites/default/files/typo/document/Act78-17VA.pdf

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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by SLGray on Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:50 pm

This will never be accepted. I understand why it could be a good thing, but it is private for a reason.

If a member want to report a pm, all they have to do is forward the pm to a staff member.


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My Two Cents

Post by NightWing on Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:30 pm

Well as Several Members of ESF Staff have said this would violate the law, and it is private for a reason but at the same time if a user has an issue then like "@SLGray" said they can foward it to an administrator
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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by Derri on Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:57 pm

@BlackScorpion wrote:That my friend is called invasion of privacy. It is against the law, and you can get sued for it.
How would you like if someone was monitoring your PM's, emails etc?


Its actually not BlackScorpion at all illegal. Even US law has rules and regulations for the monitoring of private data. Any forum softwares, VBulletin, XenForo, PHPBB3 (mods) and all the other iterations allow you by default to read members PMs or through a mod. Its not a breech of privacy if you declare it and have good reason to do so.

I know many sites that use the ability to prevent solicitation of money or other illegal things and if the admin suspects you through evidence (posting habits, behaviour, visitor messages etc) they'll take a look at some recent messages.

I personally think its a good idea because depending on what site you're running it can be useful. For example if you're running a teen site for teenagers, you don't want someone coming in and soliciting your members for things like nudes or personal details.


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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by lillo97 on Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:28 pm

MP = Messages private
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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by SLGray on Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:18 pm

@Derri wrote:
@BlackScorpion wrote:That my friend is called invasion of privacy. It is against the law, and you can get sued for it.
How would you like if someone was monitoring your PM's, emails etc?


Its actually not BlackScorpion at all illegal. Even US law has rules and regulations for the monitoring of private data. Any forum softwares, VBulletin, XenForo, PHPBB3 (mods) and all the other iterations allow you by default to read members PMs or through a mod. Its not a breech of privacy if you declare it and have good reason to do so.

I know many sites that use the ability to prevent solicitation of money or other illegal things and if the admin suspects you through evidence (posting habits, behaviour, visitor messages etc) they'll take a look at some recent messages.

I personally think its a good idea because depending on what site you're running it can be useful. For example if you're running a teen site for teenagers, you don't want someone coming in and soliciting your members for things like nudes or personal details.
For these types of situations, I would agree that you should be able to read private messages.


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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by BlackScorpion on Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:12 pm

@SLGray wrote:
@Derri wrote:
@BlackScorpion wrote:That my friend is called invasion of privacy. It is against the law, and you can get sued for it.
How would you like if someone was monitoring your PM's, emails etc?


Its actually not BlackScorpion at all illegal. Even US law has rules and regulations for the monitoring of private data. Any forum softwares, VBulletin, XenForo, PHPBB3 (mods) and all the other iterations allow you by default to read members PMs or through a mod. Its not a breech of privacy if you declare it and have good reason to do so.

I know many sites that use the ability to prevent solicitation of money or other illegal things and if the admin suspects you through evidence (posting habits, behaviour, visitor messages etc) they'll take a look at some recent messages.

I personally think its a good idea because depending on what site you're running it can be useful. For example if you're running a teen site for teenagers, you don't want someone coming in and soliciting your members for things like nudes or personal details.
For these types of situations, I would agree that you should be able to read private messages.

YOU SAID THE KEY WORD... " you declare it and have good reason to do so" Ever see a forum declare or state they will be reading your PM's? You might as well close the forum down as most people do not want their PM's read period. I know if you are running a high security forum or Government Forum or something of high sensitivity that might apply , that would come in handy, however these mediocre forums do not need this. Sorry i still say it's not needed.

FYI , might want to read the law again:
One is the invasion of privacy, a tort based in common law allowing an aggrieved party to bring a lawsuit against an individual who unlawfully intrudes into his or her private affairs, discloses his or her private information, publicizes him or her in a false light, or appropriates his or her name for personal gain.
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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by Poser on Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:18 am

It's a big no for me. This is invasion of privacy. One reason why I join a forum is for privacy purposes. A private message should only be between me and the recipient. It'd be creepy if there are other eyes reading our private conversations.
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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by Vanityy on Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:27 am

Well the government invades our privacy everyday, and does worse than look through our PMs on forums.

I would say no for this suggestion though.
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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by Lord Beerus on Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:19 am

I mean lets put it in 2 ways. 1. Invasion of privacy and 2. Security.
Yes it is an Invasion of privacy to let other members peek at others PMS but is it wrong to do it if its for security of your forum? Like Genesis said the Government does it to just do it because they can and we can't forget one major thing Security. But this seems to far fetched i have to say no as well.
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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by SLGray on Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:36 pm

Well, there are some people who create forums with Forumotion who do break the law. So in this situation, I could see a reason for reading members' private messages. I am not going to name the activities, but I have came across some that I know for a fact were breaking the law. Even if we are not allowed to read private messages, authorities can get a court order to see them.


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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by Derri on Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:56 pm

@BlackScorpion wrote:
@SLGray wrote:
@Derri wrote:
@BlackScorpion wrote:That my friend is called invasion of privacy. It is against the law, and you can get sued for it.
How would you like if someone was monitoring your PM's, emails etc?


Its actually not BlackScorpion at all illegal. Even US law has rules and regulations for the monitoring of private data. Any forum softwares, VBulletin, XenForo, PHPBB3 (mods) and all the other iterations allow you by default to read members PMs or through a mod. Its not a breech of privacy if you declare it and have good reason to do so.

I know many sites that use the ability to prevent solicitation of money or other illegal things and if the admin suspects you through evidence (posting habits, behaviour, visitor messages etc) they'll take a look at some recent messages.

I personally think its a good idea because depending on what site you're running it can be useful. For example if you're running a teen site for teenagers, you don't want someone coming in and soliciting your members for things like nudes or personal details.
For these types of situations, I would agree that you should be able to read private messages.

YOU SAID THE KEY WORD... " you declare it and have good reason to do so" Ever see a forum declare or state they will be reading your PM's?

Yes I could like you if you'd like via PM?

I think FM forums should allow it for a couple reasons. 1) If you're the founder you're supposed to responsible for everything that is done within your forum. I'm not sure if this exists into PMs but if you've got members breaking FM TOS via PM, I'd want them off my forum but how can I take action with no real evidence other than some shady posts or patterns?

2) If you've got nothing to hide then it shouldn't be a big problem.

I think in a lot of cases it could really be useful depending on the type of forums. You probably would get Admin who've got nothing better to do than to read your PMs but honestly if they're like that, would the forum grow? Most likely not.

I've been on forums where reading PMs is possible and because the Admins are mature and have lives and better things to do, they're hardly going to spend a lot of time reading PMs without cause.

US common law doesn't apply to the whole internet and you'd find it hard to honestly bring a claim against anyone over reading PMs so you're quote, while accurate among common law of the US and while most countries apply a similar common law, its not applicable with the internet in real terms, because its unenforceable.

Otherwise we'd have more prosecutions of things like death threats, hate crimes, slander and abusive content. Whereas there isn't.

I get what you're saying, you don't want anyone reading your PMs but at the end of the day its a good tool for admins to have.


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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by Legionheart on Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:56 pm

I can actually say this would be a decent idea. However it should be limited to founder access only. The founder should have the right to see if it violates any of FM's ToS or any individual's personal rights. Think of it as a founder screenshot tool in a way. While it would be in my opinion unorthodox to have a system to allow 'private' messages to be read by another person, I do believe that you cannot fully expect all ToS to be followed if you do not know what is happening behind your back. Like I had said if this could be an option added only to the founder access like the templates, maybe even a permission accessible with credits it would be alot safer of an idea.
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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by BlackScorpion on Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:09 pm

You are actually right, I'm referring to the US, I lost track that we have user from around the world. Even though this will probably never happen, I can see it being abused by immature admins.
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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by xZeus on Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:22 am

Yes but when someone report message why Administrator shouldnt read messages?
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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by tylercole on Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:01 am

Private messages cannot be legally read, unless if in the terms and rules of service they read prior to registering said the admins will do so. However, it is not, so it would be illegal.
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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by xZeus on Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:03 am

Yes i know but it doesn't make sense .... If i report you that you flame me in private messages i think that admininistrators will need to have acess to this part of messages
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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by Malum on Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:51 am

I have to disagree with this one. It's invasion of privacy and it's also illegal. It's called private messaging for a reason. Sometimes if a person is breaking rules through pm now that could be sent to an admin from another member, but an admin doesn't need to go through everyone's messages.
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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by xZeus on Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:26 pm

a lot of games have private messages and when players report each others staff can wiew...
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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by jucarese on Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:55 pm

The private messaging of all web pages are regulated in the same way as a postal card and it is a crime that you can read the content of something that is not intended for you
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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by brandon_g on Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:59 am

I see no need for this. If someone recieves an offensive message, they could simply screenshot it or copy and paste the text of the message and send and report it to a staff member that way.

Voted no!

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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by APE on Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:01 am

also vote nope

you can send a copy to an admin or mod just by clicking Quote then change the name from the members to the Admin's or mods then press send it will then quote the member and send it to the admin and not the member.



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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by xZeus on Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:39 pm

in my forums member using INSPECT element take screenshot so it can be used in someone's favour,and we suspend sometimes wrong person...
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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by brandon_g on Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:55 pm

Well, thats why sometimes a bit of investigation and hearing both sides of the story can go a long way. Worst comes to worst, you could always disable pms for whole forum if it became too much of a sitewide problem.


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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by xZeus on Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:54 pm

so why a lot of pages have report button on message ?
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Re: Allows admins to read private messaging

Post by BlackScorpion on Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:54 pm

@brandon_g wrote:Well, thats why sometimes a bit of investigation and hearing both sides of the story can go a long way. Worst comes to worst, you could always disable pms for whole forum if it became too much of a sitewide problem.

Very well said @brandon_g

@xZeus wrote:so why a lot of pages have report button on message ?

That's mainly to report any offensive or misappropriate post or messages to the admin.
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