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Spam filter

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In progress Spam filter

Post by S-t-e-v-e- on June 8th 2012, 10:15 pm

Mad how many time do i have to complain about this before forumotion act about it....

i know this people been block for no good reason how many members have been block on my forum for no reason who asn;t contact me? it is worrying

Here is the message sent by the contact form page Anonymous of "" - http://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com.

Message subject : [Contact] Account

Message content :

Hi,

When I try and log in it says there is some suspicious activity relating to my user name and to fill in a form to continue. I fill in the form but nothing happens.

Never seen this before, please help.
User name: Gee

it's time forumotion look at the spam filter they have got Mad i'm trying to build a forum when 100s could be banned for no reason, you have to remember there alot of computer dumb people out there when they see something like they they will just move to another forum....

i have reported this problem 4 times now people are getting block for no reason. can someone report this to the tech or owner of the forumotion please.


Last edited by Leeloo on June 21st 2012, 9:40 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Title more appropriate)

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by Darren1 on June 8th 2012, 10:25 pm

Hi,

All we can do is pass the details to Leeloo who then may, depending on the requirements of the issue, pass to the devs.

Can you please give Via PM to Leeloo the username and url of your forum and she will try to weave her magic for you Wink

The devs wont do anything, the script is working perfectly fine, there is no real reason for them to modify it. Sorry.

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by S-t-e-v-e- on June 8th 2012, 10:29 pm

but this shouldn't happen to people who asn't done anything wrong.... this is the 4th person it as happen now to people i know and they dont even use a pc much how can they get block for no reason...

i would like to know how many members on my forum have be block this way! i pay alot of money to forumotion i expect better!! i pay something like 70 to get the ads off my forum and another 20 to remove free forum links off...... i should have a option to stop this filter...


@Darren1 wrote:
The devs wont do anything, the script is working perfectly fine, there is no real reason for them to modify it. Sorry.

what planet are you on how can you say they work fine when member are getting block for no reason Mad

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by Darren1 on June 8th 2012, 10:38 pm

There's no option to disable this, and I believe the dev have NO plan to do so, simply because it is designed to prevent suspicious account from being abused.
It seems that your the only person who's having a continuous encounter, that simply shows that there are faults, but there is always faults with everything. A good example is a power grid stop working. It shouldn't but does, nor was it planned to do so.

To be perfectly honest, 4/millions is a pretty good encounter rate, it seems to be working fine in my opinion.
I'd suggest that if you want to talk about expectations of the company and this issue, that it is best to talk to Leeloo about it, in private.
I don't work for the company Wink

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by S-t-e-v-e- on June 8th 2012, 10:40 pm

@Darren1 wrote:There's no option to disable this

well there should be a option! this spam filter is joke i really want to know how many of my members have been block that i don't know about!!


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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by Darren1 on June 8th 2012, 10:52 pm

From what Ive seen, very few, infact, it's less then 100 that wern't legitimate users.
Like I said, it's there for a reason and I believe the devs have no plans, or even want to make this optional. Sorry.

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by S-t-e-v-e- on June 8th 2012, 11:01 pm

4 members they are not really good pc only use me forum have been block for no reason tell me there a huge problem with the filter blackeye if people are a getting block for no reason i wonder how many are being block but dont do anything about! who doesn't fill ouit the code! Mad when i'm spending 100 a year i expect better!!

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by Darren1 on June 8th 2012, 11:15 pm

Considering that you pay for services unrelated to the subject at matter, you are free to discuss your feelings with Leeloo, she will reply when she gets to the office on Monday.

For the issue at hand;
Unfortunately, it is not possible, nor will it ever be possible to prevent account from being temporarily blocked with the suspicious account page. It has been having fantastic success and like I have said above 4/millions is pretty darn good.
There would have been an issue for these members being blocked, I assure you. There is nothing in the script that says "If user is being good and posting heaps; ban them" its more like "If user meets x,x,x,x criteria prevent suspicious activity page"

I'm sorry but I have nothing else to say to this matter, Ill be repeating myself.

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by S-t-e-v-e- on June 9th 2012, 12:28 am

@Darren1 wrote: It has been having fantastic success and like I have said above 4/millions is pretty darn good.

Are you real you call something success when it blocking people when they haven't done anything wrong... when i have to pay the going rate for e VPS server i'm gone i will delete my forum so forumotion will lose my money for good atleast i will have fully control of everything...

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by Darren1 on June 9th 2012, 12:30 am

Like I said above, if you feel were not getting it right when it comes to monetary issues, please, PM Leeloo and she will reply on Monday Wink

Yes, I call it a success because I know not everything is perfect and a 99.99% positive result is fantastic!

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by S-t-e-v-e- on June 9th 2012, 12:35 am

i shouldn't have to pm leeloo it should be working right! the hole spam filler need looking at ... if you got nothing like to say then leave it to admin becasue i'm sick of this issues.

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by Sanket on June 9th 2012, 11:42 am

S-t-e-v-e-, please just calm down. Darren1 was just trying to guide you in the best possible way. I have forwarded the problem to Leeloo.

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by S-t-e-v-e- on June 9th 2012, 4:59 pm

sorry Sanket i do go over the top at time but its start to do my head in, at the moment it's just pick up people randomly , these people who has been block only used the forum they dont do anything else they all in this 50's Confused .... there a huge problem with the spam filter and i have reported it 4 times.... i just hope that 100s of other members hasn't been block and just decide to move to another forum thinking i have block them.

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by vasudeva418 on June 10th 2012, 2:54 pm

bummer

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by Sanket on June 11th 2012, 1:26 pm

Don't have to bump the topic, Leeloo will reply when she gets time as the matter is already reported.

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by Leviosa on June 11th 2012, 3:00 pm

Hello,

I'm sorry to know that you're disappointed of the antispam system. But there are some points in what you affirm that are not really true.

To begin, the system antispam has been set up for a good reason, it helps protect your forum from spam and links banned by Google.
When a member is blocked, there's always a good reason and it's depending on his behaviour on Internet, like explained here : http://help.forumotion.com/t106781p30-information-only-topicmember-reporting-being-blocked-suspicious-activity-advice-please?highlight=suspicious+activity

You are wrong to say that the system is a joke, just because you had some members that have been blocked. The techs haven't noted failures with it, but I'll try to report your feedback. Be sure that if a bug with the system will be noticed, they will fix it as soon as possible.

Then, I remind that Forumotion is a free service so please don't mix the issues ! The antispam system has nothing to do with your expenses on your forum.
You have chosen to benefit of these services. But all our users are treated with the same respect. You can all expect our benevolence and our help. Smile

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by nordmann on June 20th 2012, 8:48 pm

I too have had several legitimate users blocked from my forum and they are quite justifiably unimpressed, especially when the procedure presented to them to request unblocking doesn't work either. I suspect other users who contributed regularly and have suddenly "disappeared" also have most probably been blocked in this way. My forum does not have a huge membership so this activity is effectively killing it.

If, as has been said, there is no plan to fix or amend this rather disastrous spam filter can someone at least give us administrators some advice which can be forwarded to our members to help them avoid being faslely identified as spammers?

It seems incredibly stupid - and even a tad dishonest - to be accepting payments from administrators for running forums while sponsoring a system which puts those same forums out of commission.

At the very least can the captcha part of the "request unblock" procedure please be made to work?

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by S-t-e-v-e- on June 20th 2012, 9:38 pm

Leeloo wrote:
Then, I remind that Forumotion is a free service so please don't mix the issues ! The antispam system has nothing to do with your expenses on your forum.

it's not free for member who doen't want crappy adds all over the place Wink i think when my forum cost the same amount of a VSP server I'm be jumping ship... there is a problem with a spam filter i would love to know how many people have been banned on my forum who decide to go else where.

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by Leviosa on June 21st 2012, 9:39 am

@S-t-e-v-e- wrote:
Leeloo wrote:
Then, I remind that Forumotion is a free service so please don't mix the issues ! The antispam system has nothing to do with your expenses on your forum.

it's not free for member who doesn't want crappy adds all over the place Wink i think when my forum cost the same amount of a VSP server I'm be jumping ship... there is a problem with a spam filter i would love to know how many people have been banned on my forum who decide to go else where.

Forumotion is a free service, paid by ads. Like a paid server is paid by user. If you don't want these ads, so you have to purchase the option, yes.
But it is by no means mandatory, it's your choice then you shouldn't complain about it now. Wink

I understand that you may be tempted to accuse the anti-spam system to explain the decline of your forum's traffic, but I remind that the anti-spam system only blocks suspicious users that have been detected through their username + IP address. So that shouldn't be the case of all your users I think.

Thanks thumright

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by nordmann on June 21st 2012, 10:22 am

Hi Leeloo

Am I right in understanding that members who might occasionally use internet cafes, for example, when accessing my forum are more likely to be falsely identified as spammers due to previous suspicious activity on the IP address they happen to be assigned there? Also, I have a member whose ISP connection is configured to dynamically change her IP address periodically. Is this also being wrongly identified as suspicious? She has now been locked out three times that I know of, despite only using her home internet connection and never having engaged in spam-like activity (I work in IT and could verify this personally - the IP address blocked by OnlineGuardian did not figure on any published blacklists, or indeed the subscription blacklists to which I also have access).

All I would really like is some advice from someone who actually understands the algorithms involved in this particular spam filtering to kindly tell me some guidelines I can pass on to members so that they can at least minimise the risk of being locked out for no good reason.

In the case of my own forum I am pretty much convinced that the sudden disappearance of regular contributors is often down to this problem - as I have verified this with them through private e-mail correspondence.

Cheers

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by S-t-e-v-e- on June 21st 2012, 12:49 pm

Leeloo wrote:
@S-t-e-v-e- wrote:
Leeloo wrote:
Then, I remind that Forumotion is a free service so please don't mix the issues ! The antispam system has nothing to do with your expenses on your forum.

it's not free for member who doesn't want crappy adds all over the place Wink i think when my forum cost the same amount of a VSP server I'm be jumping ship... there is a problem with a spam filter i would love to know how many people have been banned on my forum who decide to go else where.

Forumotion is a free service, paid by ads. Like a paid server is paid by user. If you don't want these ads, so you have to purchase the option, yes.
But it is by no means mandatory, it's your choice then you shouldn't complain about it now. Wink

I understand that you may be tempted to accuse the anti-spam system to explain the decline of your forum's traffic, but I remind that the anti-spam system only blocks suspicious users that have been detected through their username + IP address. So that shouldn't be the case of all your users I think.

Thanks thumright

who talking about a decline of traffic? my forum is growing pretty fast getting nearly 2000 hits every day that why it's costing me so much to remove the ad on here! But in my opinion this spam filter is losing me members because they getting block for no reason, a friend of my only use the net to use my forum and she was block but she knew how to contact me you have to also understand forum like my 80% of the members are new to forums and if or when they get this message they don't have clue they think it i was the be who as done this. instead of telling me about the problem they will move to another forum. who know how many members i have lose over it, it could be 10 it or in it's 100s

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by nordmann on June 21st 2012, 1:07 pm

Hi S-t-e-v-e-, I think Leeloo was confused between my point and yours. I can only agree with everything you have said up to this point. The worst aspect to this problem is that we administrators have no way of knowing exactly who has been affected unless the member themself writes to us. Where I have chased people up then I have found that this is eactly what has happened - they have been blocked and just couldn't be bothered coming back to the forum anymore.

The effect on traffic to my site has not been marked. In fact traffic is showing a steady increase. However I am frequently losing good contributors, which of course detracts completely from the forum and will, in time, kill it. What's the point of a forum if no one can contribute? Increased browsing by anonymous "guests" is welcome, however it is pointless if the actual number of contributing user-members is being decimated almost daily.

I am sure Leeloo will respond in time to my reasonable request that we at least be given guidelines to pass on to our members so that they might avoid being mistaken as spammers. And also that the unblock request facility is made to work - at the moment they are doubly frustrated having been locked out in that they then find that the captcha codes are rejected.

But I am getting the distinct impression that this problem we are relating to them isn't actually understood by the admins here. The filter might be doing a great job, as they keep saying to us, keeping out real spammers but it is obviously kicking out enough innocent users also now to be actually rated as a serious liability in its own right, and in fact as injurious to a forum as any spammer. I too am actively seeking an alternative host at this stage.


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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by S-t-e-v-e- on June 21st 2012, 1:50 pm

i think we just about saying the same thing nordmann, with this spam filter could be kicking people off who would of become regs who could of posted 1,000s of posts we missing out on, If i was new and i got this warning for no reason i would just leave without telling anybody IMO and this is what happening.

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by runawayhorses on June 21st 2012, 2:37 pm

No one has ever been blocked from my forum ever, because its working like it should, like it always has for the past 4 1/2 years. The only reason anyone would be blocked is because the anti-spam filter thinks they are suspicious. Computers do not discriminate emotionally.

Considering your earlier complaint and query concerning word ads popping up in members posts and the fact it was diagnosed as being your members had a virus, it is easy to conclude that your members being reconised as "suspicious" is a result of there viruses they have on there computers.

http://help.forumotion.com/t110187-ads-keep-pop-in-topics

So in conclusion we can safely say that the reason some of your members are being "blocked" is because they have viruses and it is in no way forumotions fault or error.

I would suggest they educate themselves about computers vulnerabilities to spyware and viruses, otherwise you will continue to post complaints that no one can fix but your members themselves.

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by nordmann on June 21st 2012, 2:45 pm

Hi runawayhorses and thanks for that suggestion

In the cases I have followed up regarding my own members who have been blocked there have been none as yet who had active spyware or malware on their PCs when it happened. A part of my work is combating and detecting malware daily on a few thousand end-user clients so I knew what I was looking for and how to fix it when it was found.

It just wasn't there.

And when you say that no one has ever been blocked from your forum ever, can you please tell me how you know that for sure? As I said, a huge problem for me is that I as administrator have absolutely no indication of a member being blocked until they actually report the event to me. If you have a way of ensuring that existing members on your site are simply inactive as opposed to blocked I would be very interested in knowing how it's done. It would make my life a lot easier and my forum a lot healthier!


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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by runawayhorses on June 21st 2012, 3:03 pm

I should rephrase that comment and say that no one has ever 'reported' they or someone they knew was blocked.

Now let me ask you a question. How do you know this"?: "I have followed up regarding my own members who have been blocked there have been none as yet who had active spyware or malware on their PCs"

I would be delighted to hear how you managed to find out your members "had no active spyware or malware"? Because they told you so? That doesn't mean there isn't any.

Everything points to spyware and viruses and malware, especially from a site that its Admin claims the members don't know much about computers.

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by Leviosa on June 21st 2012, 3:07 pm

@nordmann wrote:Hi runawayhorses and thanks for that suggestion

In the cases I have followed up regarding my own members who have been blocked there have been none as yet who had active spyware or malware on their PCs when it happened. A part of my work is combating and detecting malware daily on a few thousand end-user clients so I knew what I was looking for and how to fix it when it was found.

It just wasn't there.

And when you say that no one has ever been blocked from your forum ever, can you please tell me how you know that for sure? As I said, a huge problem for me is that I as administrator have absolutely no indication of a member being blocked until they actually report the event to me. If you have a way of ensuring that existing members on your site are simply inactive as opposed to blocked I would be very interested in knowing how it's done. It would make my life a lot easier and my forum a lot healthier!


Hello,

Thank you very much.
I wasn't confused between the 2 posts but I forgot to quote your post sorry Razz

As you said to runawayhorses, he can't be totally sure.
Similarly, you can not be sure either that some of your inactive members are blocked by the anti-spam ...
However there is a way to find out if your theory is good, it's to contact them via their email boxes.

Anyway, I forwarded your request and I will check this out with the devs. I hope the answer will solved your issue or your doubts. Wink

Thanks !


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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by runawayhorses on June 21st 2012, 3:17 pm

Oh I never had an issue with any of this that is another posters problem.

If I have never "received" any information about a member being blocked, it would in my opinion be unreasonable to assume they have if you have no reason to suspect it, and email them all asking them if they have.







Last edited by runawayhorses on June 21st 2012, 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by Leviosa on June 21st 2012, 3:23 pm

@runawayhorses wrote:Oh I never had an issue with any of this that is another posters problem.

If I have never "received" any information about a member being blocked, it would in my opinion unreasonable to assume they have if you have no reason to suspect it, and email them all asking them if they have.

Hello runawayhorses,

Yes I know Smile
It was an answer to nordmann as he suspects the anti-spam system to be the reason why he gets some inactive users.


Last edited by Leeloo on June 21st 2012, 3:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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In progress Re: Spam filter

Post by runawayhorses on June 21st 2012, 3:25 pm

Right, understood.. Smile

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