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Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

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Should The Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Be Removed?

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Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Guest on July 29th 2013, 1:51 am

On Forumotion forums members can at present delete their own accounts and unsubscribe for any Forumotion forum they want to. 

This is possible even if the admin has disabled the option for members to unsubscribe or delete themselves from your forum. As they can override us by going to the main FM site and clocking the unsubscribe link and entering the forum URL, email address and username they use on the FM forum concerned.

My suggestion is that Forumotion should remove the option for members to override the admins of other FM Forums and delete their accounts from our forums. As it's not fair on us admins. And also if we wanted members to have the option to delete their accounts from our forums, then we would have enabled it ourselves in the admin panel.

I put this forward as a suggestion because I myself am an ex-admin of a FM forum I used to have though I am still a members of other FM forums. And I know many Forumotion admins are very frustrated as members are deleting their own accounts. despite the fact that those admins have disabled this option in the admin panel. 

As far as I know Forumotion is the only free forum service that has this option. As on other services, such as Proboards and FreeFrorums.org, for example. A member can only delete their own account if the admin has enabled this in their forum settings. But on Forumotion that's not the case.

I understand their is some kind of obligation for admins to delete a members account from their forum if asked to by that member. But the most of the time members delete their accounts for no other reason except for they are "fed up with that forum,"  which is not a good excuse.

Most forums I am a member of don't allow members to delete their accounts.Though these are non FM forums,although the admins will deactivate the account on request. So that the posts remain on the forum but the username is changed to another one and all personal details of that member are removed, in most cases.

So my suggestion is that Forumotion remove the option for members to delete thir accounts on other Forumotion forums. What do you say folks?


Last edited by Andrea Borman on July 31st 2013, 5:27 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Empire_1 on July 29th 2013, 2:06 am

Andrea Borman wrote:On Forumotion forums members can at present delete their own accounts and unsubscribe for any Forumotion forum they want to. 

This is possible even if the admin has disabled the option for members to unsubscribe or delete themselves from your forum. As they can override us by going to the main FM site and clocking the unsubscribe link and entering the forum URL, email address and username they use on the FM forum concerned.

My suggestion is that Forumotion should remove the option for members to override the admins of other FM Forums and delete their accounts from our forums. As it's not fair on us admins. And also if we wanted members to have the option to delete their accounts from our forums, then we would have enabled it ourselves in the admin panel.

I put this forward as a suggestion because I myself am an ex-admin of a FM forum I used to have though I am still a members of other FM forums. And I know many Forumotion admins are very frustrated as members are deleting their own accounts. despite the fact that those admins have disabled this option in the admin panel. 

As far as I know Forumotion is the only free forum service that has this option. As on other services, such as Proboards and FreeFrorums.org, for example. A member can only delete their own account if the admin has enabled this in their forum settings. But on Forumotion that's not the case.

I understand their is some kind of obligation for admins to delete a members account from their forum if asked to by that member. But the most of the time members delete their accounts for no other reason except for they are "fed up with that forum,"  which is not a good excuse.

Most forums I am a member of don't allow members to delete their accounts.Though these are non FM forums,although the admins will deactivate the account on request. So that the posts remain on the forum but the username is changed to another one and all personal details of that member are removed, in most cases.

So my suggestion is that Forumotion remove the option for members to delete thir accounts on other Forumotion forums. What do you say folks?

If I am correct, you are legally obligated to delete a member's account if he or she requests it. 

This feature saves administrators the trouble from having to do it manually themselves or saves them from getting into legal issues if they refuse to comply.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Guest on July 29th 2013, 2:37 am

Empire-1 wrote:If I am correct, you are legally obligated to delete a member's account if he or she requests it.
 
Yes I read that as well on the Forumotion help pages. Though I am not sure if it a legal requirement or not. As it depends what country you are in as each have different laws.

I know there is such a thing as privacy laws that are different in England and In America but both say the same thing. That if a member does not want his or her personal information such as real name age or birthday,the admin must remove those details from their profile.

Most admins will do that anyway. But all other free forum services I know,Proboards and other,don't allow for members to delete their own accounts. Not from individual forums anyway,unless the admin of that forum enables it in the settings.

If you think about it,how would you feel if,several members deleted their accounts overnight? it's not fair on the admins as it disrupts the flow of the forum. And some admins don't like posts showing as Guest. If a member wants to leave Far better to simply remove that members personal details from his profile and change his username to something else. Maybe also remove his email address,rather than delete his account.

There is a member on one Forumotion forum I am on,which I won't name. Who keeps on deleting his account using FMs main site to unsubscribe. Then he keeps coming back with a new account,then deletes it again a few weeks later,then makes a new account,only to delete it again. So you can see why the admin there is fed up with it. As some members simply abuse this feature.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by SLGray on July 29th 2013, 3:17 am

Why would you want to keep someone who wants to leave? If they can not leave, they would cause issues.

My vote is no.


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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Derri on July 29th 2013, 3:20 am

It doesn't matter about varying country laws.

The account deletion is stated in the Forumotion Terms of Service so that valid for anyone who uses the forums.

It is disruptive I know but sadly it's the law. Personally if someone does do what you described I ban there account and remove all of their posts because it's evident that they are only doing it to cause trouble.

@SLGray the issue here is, it disrupts the forum and causes issues when someone delete's their own account because everything shows up as "guest". I mean even if it had a username it would be better.

Plus people can just wipe their profile clean and do a keyboard smash as a password change and never log in, so that's simple enough.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Guest on July 29th 2013, 4:04 am

@Derri wrote:@SLGray the issue here is, it disrupts the forum and causes issues when someone delete's their own account because everything shows up as "guest". I mean even if it had a username it would be better. 
 
That's what I am trying to say. The problem is if you have a member who has made a lot of posts.when you delete his account it shows up as Guest. Some details like the IP remain after the account is deleted though any Pm's and profile information is deleted with the account.

On the forum I mentioned in my earlier post which I am a members of.The admin has had lots of problems with a member who keeps deleting his account for no reason then recreates himself with another account. The admin says he is fed up with him creating an account then 2 weeks later he deletes it.Then a few weeks late he signs up again then deletes his account and creates another one.

I can see that admins point. Either a members wants to stay on the forum or he doesn't. If he wants to leave that's fair enough. Though it is still disrupting if you remove an account, especially if you delete all that members posts. As it disrupts the threads and a lot of members don't like posts headed as Guest either.

On that forum I mentioned the admin there removed that members personal details and changed his username,then deactivated that users account.So nothing in that account is connected to that member. That to me is unacceptable alternative.  If members have joined but never posted then it's better to just delete their accounts. As they are only taking up space on the database.


Last edited by Andrea Borman on July 29th 2013, 4:05 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by runawayhorses on July 29th 2013, 4:05 am

I don't have a problem with someone deleting there account if they feel the need to do so, I would do it myself if the option wasn't there for them and they requested it. If the OP's reason for wanting the option removed is because the same person keeps abusing the system all they need to do is ban the IP of the user, problem solved. Having said that I'm going to vote "Yes" because I also see no reason why the option can't be disabled. Its not against the law to disable a users ability to delete his or her account, many places are like that, they have to request it to get there account deleted.

Options are nice, I usually vote in favor of anything that expands options, and we are talking about the expansion of the Admin's options to disable the members ability to delete there account themselves, giving them another step to take before deletion. Its not disabling there ability to get it deleted thus taking away their option, its adding an option to the Admin.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Guest on July 29th 2013, 4:08 am

Well it's not my forum, as I no longer have a forum on Forumotion. The forum I am talking about is another Forumotion forum, where I am a member. It's the admin there who is having this problem. In fact the member of that forum even started a thread about it here today.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by runawayhorses on July 29th 2013, 4:32 am

Andrea Borman wrote: In fact the member of that forum even started a thread about it here today.
Are they in favor of having the ability to delete their own account themselves without needing the Admin to do it? Because they have that ability now.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Guest on July 29th 2013, 4:41 am

Yes I know the settings in the admin panel can be changed so members can delete their own accounts on the forum. But the admin has disabled that as most admins do. 

Also change of username and email address is also disabled for members on that forum. The member who keeps on deleting his account,simply likes to come back with another identity. So the admin told us,so there is no real reason that he wants to delete his account other than that.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by runawayhorses on July 29th 2013, 5:15 am

Are you talking about the "Allow members to Unsubscribe" option in the Admin panel? I'm assuming that means to delete there accounts? If so I forgot about that, yes the admin already has the ability to prevent a member from deleting there accounts themselves. Well then everything is fine then its just how I think it should be, the admin can disable a member from deleting there account themselves or allow them to. I should have voted no I don't think that option should be removed. Let the admin decide if the member can delete it themselves or not. Removing the option prevents the admin from having a choice, I'm against that.

Geez I'm confused.. I don't want that

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Guest on July 29th 2013, 5:54 am

@Runawayhorses wrote:Are you talking about the "Allow members to Unsubscribe" option in the Admin panel? I'm assuming that means to delete there accounts?
Yes I am. The admin can disable this in the admin panel.But members can still override this by going to the main Forumotion site and unsubscribe from there. And there is nothing an admin can do about this.

@Runawayhorses wrote:If so I forgot about that, yes the admin already has the ability to prevent a member from deleting there accounts themselves. Well then everything is fine then its just how I think it should be, the admin can disable a member from deleting there account themselves or allow them to. I should have voted no I don't think that option should be removed. Let the admin decide if the member can delete it themselves or not. Removing the option prevents the admin from having a choice, I'm against that.
No in my suggestion I did not say FM should remove the option for the admin to delete members accounts in the admin panel.

I said FM should remove the option for members to unsubscribe themselves from a forum.Which they can do if they go to Forumotions unsubscribe link here on the main site.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by runawayhorses on July 29th 2013, 6:04 am

OK I see what you mean now. That might not be a bad idea, It kinda makes no difference what is set in the admin panel if the member can override it, although most people including the admins don't even know that page exists.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Guest on July 29th 2013, 6:43 am

I mean this link here-
http://www.forumotion.com/en/unscribe/
If a member goes to that page they can override any settings the admin has made on his forum and delete their own accounts.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by runawayhorses on July 29th 2013, 2:02 pm

I'm glad I vote yes then. Your poll question would have been more accurate if it said "Should the page where members can delete their accounts be removed?" Then put the link to that page in the first opening post. I been here 5 years I didn't know that page existed.

For your friends problem with a member deleting his account and creating another over and over again, that can be stopped by banning their IP.


Last edited by runawayhorses on July 29th 2013, 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Derri on July 29th 2013, 2:34 pm

Andrea Borman wrote:I mean this link here-
http://www.forumotion.com/en/unscribe/
If a member goes to that page they can override any settings the admin has made on his forum and delete their own accounts.

@runawayhorses wrote:I'm glad I vote yes then. Your poll question would have been more accurate if it said "Should the page members can delete their accounts be removed?" Then put the link to that page in the first opening post. I been here 5 years I didn't know that page existed.

For your friends problem with a member deleting his account and creating another over and over again, that can be stopped by banning their IP.

Don't we already have this option

ACP --> Users and Groups --> User Options --> Allow members to unsubscribe : --> No

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by runawayhorses on July 29th 2013, 2:58 pm

@Derri wrote:
Don't we already have this option

ACP --> Users and Groups --> User Options --> Allow members to unsubscribe : --> No
Yes we do, but it doesn't work because a member can use this website http://www.forumotion.com/en/unscribe/ to unsubscribe. What you allow or disallow in "ACP>Users and Groups>User Options>Allow members to unsubscribe" is irrelevant because it can be overridden by members. The OP question is should the members ability to override the Admin settings be allowed and use that website. The solution to disallow a member to override your settings would be to remove or disable that website that anyone can access.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Derri on July 29th 2013, 3:04 pm

I thought members could only unsubscribe via said link above, I didn't think you had an on site option to unsubscribe from the forums. I honestly do believe it should be the admins decision to allow people to leave a forum in such away as having their account deleted.

I mean what is the genuine harm in saying to people that they can wipe their profile and leave and never come back.

The unsubscribe link needs to have tighter restrictions as currently the only small thing that stop people from abusing it is the fact that you have to be a member for one week in order to use it.

The fact is if the unsubscribe link kept the persons username then I'd agree with it being used so liberally because it does little damage other than take away the persons profile but it just looks bad if you have a ton of people with "Guest" around your forum.


I think something needs to be improved.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Captain Hunk on July 29th 2013, 6:51 pm

Sheesh, good thing I looked here. I had no idea a person can override an Admin's site settings just to delete their account. Poll question is confusing still. Needs clarification as runawayhorses pointed out. And yes, a simple IP ban and perhaps email should work to keep that user from abusing what puny power he has.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by SLGray on July 29th 2013, 6:55 pm

I do not believe that Forumotion would remove the option for members to unsubscribe from forums.


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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Derri on July 29th 2013, 7:39 pm

@SLGray wrote:I do not believe that Forumotion would remove the option for members to unsubscribe from forums.

That's what I'm thinking perhaps maybe stricter controls on how often it can be done to prevent people from abusing it, perhaps people need to sign up to the unsubscribe system so that can keep logs of what forums your unsubbing from as well as keeping a record of IP addresses used. That way people can't abuse it.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Guest on July 29th 2013, 8:13 pm

On self hosted forums where you host your forum on a paid web host, members cannot delete their own accounts. Unless the admin has enabled the option in the settings.

On Proboards and other free forum services you cannot delete your account from a forum, unless the admin has enabled this either.

I think the option for members to go to FMs main website via the unsubscribe link, should be removed. As we could have a, mass deletion of our members.

I would not like it if, say 10 members, went to that link and deleted their accounts from my forum. It's our forums,so it's up to us, the admins if we want to delete members or not. A lot of members are drama queens and want to leave for no real reason. Then they register again under another account.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Makenna Young on July 29th 2013, 9:15 pm

Forumotion is most certainly not the only forum host that provides this option. Create A Forum does as well. (I have a few accounts on sites hosted by CAF.)

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by SerahNoel on July 29th 2013, 9:46 pm

@SLGray wrote:Why would you want to keep someone who wants to leave? If they can not leave, they would cause issues.

My vote is no.


I agree with what SLGray is saying. Even though my forum does not allow people to delete their accounts, I do not care if they ask me to delete their account or go to the forumotion site to do it. I only disabled the delete option on my forum  to prevent people from accidently deleting their accounts on my forum.
Plus, what if you wish to leave a forum but the admins do not wish to delete your account? You wouldn't want to be spammed with emails from a forum you no longer want to be apart of. My vote is also no, I think people should have the right to leave a forum if they wish.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by RadioHead on July 29th 2013, 10:00 pm

Andrea Borman wrote:
Empire-1 wrote:If I am correct, you are legally obligated to delete a member's account if he or she requests it.
 
Yes I read that as well on the Forumotion help pages. Though I am not sure if it a legal requirement or not. As it depends what country you are in as each have different laws.

 Hi,

The truth behind this is: You are obligated by FRENCH Law, not your local law, though you personally are obligated to obey the local law, when it comes to specifically forumotion.com (And associated) forums, French laws come first.
If for example, someone asks to remove the account, in your local law, u may not be required, but as the French law is the 'primary' law, you must remove it.

This option was introduced as per requirements of the French law.

It will not be removed ever, sorry.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Guest on July 29th 2013, 10:56 pm

I was reading a thread on another webmasters forum that gives advice to forum admins. The advice the OP of that thread was given was not to delete a members account unless you have to. A lot of other posters on that thread also said they never delete a members account,just change the username and remove the personal info linked to them in the profiles.

But then we are talking about self hosted forum on a paid web host,where obviously have have more control over your forum.


The truth behind this is: You are obligated by FRENCH Law, not your local law, though you personally are obligated to obey the local law, when it comes to specifically forumotion.com (And associated) forums, French laws come first.
If for example, someone asks to remove the account, in your local law, u may not be required, but as the French law is the 'primary' law, you must remove it.

This option was introduced as per requirements of the French law.

It will not be removed ever, sorry.
Well I am in England and most of the other forums I know are either American or England based not in French. Maybe it is not a legal requirement in England or America, but in France it could be different,though I don't know.

Proboards and FreeForums.org are free forum services hosted on American servers so that could be why it's different to FMs system. Meaning members there cannot override a forum admin and delete their account.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Derri on July 30th 2013, 2:45 am

We do have to remember that FM is a French company.


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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by invisible_fa on July 30th 2013, 10:10 am

Hello.

I have voted YES.

I undestand that we (the Admins) must delete an user account if the user ask us to do that, even if the reason is just that the user has fed up with the forum.

That´s OK, but we (the Admins) also have the right to know who has unsuscribed from our forum and with that link we haven´t got any control about this (except if you have a private forum where you have a small number of registred members, so you will notice that the total registred number has decreased, but if you have a public community and wich is very active, you will not notice that someone has deleted his account till you see a post with the "Guest" nickname.

So, 2 important things I want to remark with my post:

-Yes, we MUST delete an account if the user tell us to do that.
-But we have the right to do it by ourselves (Admins, I mean), not let the own user delete the account, because an organizative reason.

Doesn´t let the user delete his own account doesn´t mean that he/she will not have their account deleted: it just mean that we (the Admins), have the right to know that the account is gonna be deleted, and this is an action that only should be done by the Admin.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by runawayhorses on July 30th 2013, 1:47 pm

I agree with you 100% invisible_fa.

Removing the members ability to delete there account themselves would not be removing there ability to get the account deleted, it would just be making the rights to delete the account strictly the Admins. The member can send a notification to staff they wish there account deleted.

I don't know where people are getting the idea that if you remove the members ability to delete the account themselves that it somehow means they can't get there account deleted.

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Re: Remove Option For Members To Delete Their Accounts Via Forumotion's Own Link.

Post by Captain Hunk on July 30th 2013, 3:15 pm

@runawayhorses wrote:I'm glad I vote yes then. Your poll question would have been more accurate if it said "Should the page where members can delete their accounts be removed?" Then put the link to that page in the first opening post. I been here 5 years I didn't know that page existed.

For your friends problem with a member deleting his account and creating another over and over again, that can be stopped by banning their IP.

 Still waiting for a correction to be made by the author of this thread before I vote. Maybe it can be written another way like "Remove Option To Delete Acct via FM's own link?" Then explain how that upsets the natural balance of things when a member uses said link.

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